lathany | Photos, Snow and Abuse

On the days when I can stay in, preferably in front of a fire or radiator, I'm a big snow fan. This morning, because of playgroup, I was due to push the pushchair in it and considerably less keen.

We set off with the twins huddled in their coats and under the pushchair cover and me wrapped up in my favourite black coat, thick shoes and gloves. Once out of the door I decided that it wasn't nearly as cold as it had been the last few days. OK, the pavements were slippery but I had plenty of time and I took the journey carefully.

However, about half-way there, I had to stop. A large car had pulled off the main road and into a small track that went round the back of the building I was passing. This would have been fine had it driven down the track, but instead it had stopped at the entrance and was blocking the pavement to the extent that there was no room for a double pushchair to pass. So I waited. And waited. Eventually the passenger got out (with a walking stick) and it became clear that they were being dropped off. However I wasn't the only passerby to have been held up and one of the others yelled at the driver :

"This is a f*cking pavement, you f*cking black bitch."

And, whilst I'm aware that Feltham has a National Front presence, this is the first time I've seen racism in human form here.

Playgroup itself had a pleasant surprise - the photos are back and so

bateleur and I will be spending some of this weekend choosing one (there are three options). Also, on collecting the duo, I was informed that they'd been "lovely". Which was very nice.

However, I had a lower opinion of them (or half of them) having pushed them to Tesco and back. One half of the pushchair was totally silent whilst the other half didn't stop talking.

"What are we having?"
"Pasta."
"What Are We Having?"
"PASTA."
"I don't like pasta."
"It's still going to be your lunch."
"It's cold."
"We'll be there soon."
"I want smarties!"
Etc.

The other nice thing this week is that I got a letter informing me that the silent half of the pushchair will have their speech therapy assessment in less than a fortnight.

Having finally seen off my cold at the beginning of the week, the twins provided me with a replacement. I'm not feeling too badly, but it's something I could have done without. Hopefully a weekend spent in the warm might make the recovery time from this one considerably shorter than the three weeks it took me to get over the last one.

Roleplayingwise, ICESP looks likely to begin sessions proper in March/April. The FalCon game I'm running with

bateleur, on the other hand, needs a lot of input for me and will be my main task for tomorrow.

Writing-wise, I'm pleased with my progress on book four. It's going slowly but well and I think I can already see improvements over my previous stuff.

Computer game-wise, I've got mixed feelings about Star Ocean : Till the End of Time. But I'll write a proper review of that when I finish it (although I think I've got some way to go yet).

And The Wheel is this weekend.

Current Mood: cheerful

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

From:

elethiomel.livejournal.com

I wonder if it is really racism, per se, that causes that though? I've noticed a lot of people of chav-like tendencies often use the contruction "you [verb expletive] [obvious adjective] [expletive noun]". That the woman was black was just the most obvious thing to call her. Had she been grossly obese I'm sure it would have been "you f**king fat bitch"...

Not sure I'm expressing this as well as I would like to but what I'm getting at is I'm not sure she's being insulted because she is black (as racism would sugest) but that her colour is merely a convenient adjunct to an insult borne out of ignorance. Does that make sense?

From:

lanfykins.livejournal.com

Except that your comparison doesn't bear examination - 'fat', for example, is considered an insult.

From:

http://users.livejournal.com/_alanna/

...but isn't racist.

I think elethiomel's point was that the insult may have been intended just as an insult and not really as a racism per se (not that that makes it any better tho :P).

From:

lanfykins.livejournal.com

Well, no, it doesn't :)

If 'black' is considered a form of insult in and of itself (being the 'obvious adjective' because of its negative connotations) then that makes more of a problem, not less.

From:

http://users.livejournal.com/_alanna/

It's strange what some people decide to use as an insult.

"Blonde bitch" would be in the same vein. "Blonde" itself just isn't insulting, but I've heard people use it as an insult. *shrugs*

From:

lanfykins.livejournal.com

True. Though I suspect that they're thinking of the connotations of stupidity and vacuousness when they use it as an insult.

From:

http://users.livejournal.com/_alanna/

Yep... it's true that I've never heard 'brown-haired bitch' used as an insult!

From:

onebyone.livejournal.com

'fat', for example, is considered an insult.

So is "skinny" when used in context of "you skinny bitch". Anything can be an insult which deviates from the norm, where the norm is defined partly by the insulter, and partly by the 10-30 people they regularly hang out with and dimly assume constitute a population sample.

There are a lot of people who are prejudiced by others' sex, sexuality, colour, weight, class, idiolect, age or clothing, and would use therefore terms related to any of those things as insults. It doesn't necessarily follow that someone who uses those terms in an insult actually displays significant prejudice, although it's probably a reasonable assumption to make (i.e, prejudice to hold) until proven otherwise.

From:

venta.livejournal.com

Yes, I was trying to work out how to say that, without saying "calling someone 'a black bitch' needn't be racist", which sounds weird however you read it.

Obviously, it's a bit of an academic disctinction, since it's a fairly offensive thing to shout at someone, regardless of your exact motiviation.

From:

lathany.livejournal.com

I think I find it racist because I simply can't imagine the person in question yelling "you f*cking white bitch" even if they were in a part of London where white people were in the minority.

I see your point; that it was just there to be more descriptive that just "bitch" (after all, there are more white people than black in Feltham), but I don't believe that this was why the word was included.

From:

venta.livejournal.com

I have heard "white" included in sentences like that - both by Asians and Africans - in Oxford and London.

I've never paused to ask for an explanation, though. I'd always assumed it was just a handy adjective to shove into your insult, the default probably being "stupid" if there are no obvious distinguishing characteristics of the person you're shouting at.

I'm sure there's an interesting research project there for someone brave - investigating the "[obvious adjective]" in different cases.

From:

venta.livejournal.com

I think I mean Afro-Caribbean, actually. I dunno. I get a bit confused about terms for ethnicity.

From:

onebyone.livejournal.com

I couldn't use Afro-Caribbean as a racial classification if I wanted to, because I usually can't form an opinion just from looking at someone whether they're Afro-Caribbean or one of a number of other kinds of Afro-.

Based on the term "African-American", it should presumably be "Afro-Caribo-Briton" for applicable people living in Oxford or London. But for some reason it isn't, at which point I give up.

I do think "African" means someone from Africa, though, rather than someone who's black. Presumably white South Africans are therefore Euro-Africans.

From:

venta.livejournal.com

To be fair, I suspect that when I say Afro-Caribbean, what I really mean is Afro-mumble. I feel like (on the rare occasions when it's necessary or relevant) I ought to be able to produce the correct word for someone's ethnicity, but often can't.

I want there to be Afro-Caribou-Britons - curly-mopped mooses from the UK.

From:

bateleur.livejournal.com

We must ask Rudolph about his ethnicity...

...probably a bit of Guatemalan in there somewhere !

From:

applez.livejournal.com

Well, when it comes to race, just don't read Hegel.

From:

condign.livejournal.com

Agreed w/ Venta. Been told to "get off the train, you [expletive] cracker" in certain areas of New York, when I'm pretty certain that no one really minded the race.

And yes, it's a fascinating... if somewhat odd... research project.

From:

chrisvenus

Is the obvious adjective ever non-insulting? I think that given the adjective is likely to always be something that doesn't apply to the shouter then it is being used as a form of discrimination. If its done based on skin colour then its discrimination.

I suspect that what it is is that they are just discriminating against big groups.

That having been said I don't consider myself as racist but I suspect I have done similar things in the past. Though I actually suspect I *am* a little racist.

From:

wimble.livejournal.com

I see your point: I've envisaged the same problem, but I don't think you're right, in this case.

If it had been a white woman, would you envisage a white pedestrian calling her a "f*cking white bitch"? That seems really weird to me.

On the other hand, I can envisage black gangs referring to each other as "black brothers" (this is the result of too much bad TV and GTA, I suspect), and possibly having "white honkies" (definately too much GTA!)

So the actual case

lathany describes is racist, because it doesn't apply in the reverse. But the black bro's case isn't: it's purely descriptive (or possibly positive discrimination).

From:

http://users.livejournal.com/_alanna/

Yes, but if it was a white person, a different adjective would probably been picked instead (probably one that the person doing the insulting didn't share).... so "fat/anorexic/blonde/red-headed...etc"

And (assuming that were true) the fact that they picked on the colour of skin rather than their age or anything else, could merely mean that it's what they could actually tell about the driver through the car window.

Plus they were using 'bitch' as an insult too. So the statement would be not just racist, but also sexist. I suspect they were just going for the maximum insult possible.

From:

http://users.livejournal.com/_alanna/

(... i'm assuming the person doing the shouting was white.)

From:

lathany.livejournal.com

She was.

From:

venta.livejournal.com

I don't understand what you mean by "doesn't apply in the reverse". I'd have thought a black pedestrian yelling the equivalent at a white driver would have been exactly as racist, and exactly as offensive.

From:

wimble.livejournal.com

Sorry: "if you reverse the state of one of the participants" (but not both).

From:

applez.livejournal.com

Whoa there Way Back Machine! ;-)

Going by overheard conversations by said people on my bus rides, 'nigger' and 'niggah' are the prefered terms of endearment, fealty, and fraternity.

But Chris Rock has already said what needed saying on that subject.

From:

cardinalsin.livejournal.com

(replying to various people all at once)

It seems to me that although sometimes people use a "default adjective" that is not actually itself insulting, usually it is itself intended as an insult. Q.V. you stupid X, you fat Y, you big-nosed Z. I have never heard "white" used in this way, though I gather this is not unheard of. Regardless, its clear that "white" does not have a tradition of being used as an insult in the way that "black" does. I suppose you might argue that when called "you fat X" the caller didn't really mean to imply that the fatness of their target was a negative quality, and thus worthy of insult... but I think you'd hardly have a leg to stand on. I think the same applies here - appearances are unlikely to be deceptive in this case.

From:

bateleur.livejournal.com

"White" definitely can be used as an insult, just not by Caucasians !

From:

applez.livejournal.com

That most European/Caucasian types are not used to being the subject of racism, so are largely ignorant of when it is applied against them. The only exceptions I can think of are:

- When traveling/living abroad, and are the minority population.

- The breakdown of 'caucasian' as a racial identifier, and one becomes more keen to 'kill the Hunnish bastard' or they are Catholic/Muslim/Protestant or are mere peasant scum.

Lovely diversity discrimation has, eh.

From:

cardinalsin.livejournal.com

I continue to think that racism as a term does not really apply to the "ruling race" - by which I mean those who have economic, political and cultural hegemony and have done historically for some time, i.e. for most of the world (all?) whites. This is because (even though it is possible to discriminate against this group on grounds of race) it really doesn't have the same meaning if you use anti-white abuse. It has no more meaning than if you'd called your victim "stupid". Vituperously calling your victim "black" has an extra meaning because of the history of such behaviour (assuming that the caller is white, of course). Granted, it is possible the caller may not intend this meaning, but as with all utterances, the default assumption is that they meant what they said, including all well-known connotations of what they said.

Racism is not in itself worse than any other form of discrimination, e.g. the nationalism you mention, or going further, discrimination on ground of being fat or blonde. But it is rightly considered worse because of the history attached to it - the fact that exterminations, repression and discriminations have happened over a long period of time. It is this history which makes racism so poisonous. It is the reason why it is so important to be tough with it in a way nobody is on (e.g.) blonde jokes, even though some people might find them just as offensive.

From:

applez.livejournal.com

I continue to think that racism as a term does not really apply to the "ruling race"

I use a broader definition for racism - that it is discrimination with sentiments of inherent superiority linked to broad generalisations of ethnicity/race/group identification (e.g. Asians are good at maths, Blacks are physically fit, Whites are intellectually superior).

Moreover, I do think that racism can apply against the 'ruling race' as it were ... after all, where did phrases like 'honky' come from? It is the very same kind of discriminatory mentality, only applied by the minority against the 'majority.'

Nevermind inter-minority racism (Italians vs. Germans vs. Jews vs. Irish vs. Latinos vs. Blacks ... as in New York or Detroit).

And I think economic, political, and cultural hegemony is also a matter of scale. e.g. "Doesn't matter who says they rule, only the Blacks rule Harlem." Or, with regards to cultural hegemony, whatever the 'white' cultural dominance of the US, for example, 'black'/'hiphop' culture actually has had a long-standing (rock, jazz, blues) influence, and growing dominance of popular culture, shared by all 'races.'

Also, regarding 'default assumptions' that is very much, I think, a question of what the prevailing culture is where you are living (be it Beijing, or Queensland, or East Compton).

Racism is not in itself worse than any other form of discrimination

I would agree in principle, except for the history of human racism and its diseased influence on politics and policy. But we seem to agree on that too. :-)

---

Actually, I've been having quite a few conversations about this very subject with Larissa - as her philosophy course has taken her into racial issues (gah! Hegel!).

Also, this is is on topic:

http://www.sfweekly.com/issues/current/news/infiltrator.html

"My Dinner at Applebee's with White Supremacists"

From:

cardinalsin.livejournal.com

It definitely can, it just doesn't have a history of doing so. There is the term "white trash" which has now become ingrained as an insult, but that has a fairly specific meaning (=synonymous with trailer trash, if I understand it right).

I can use anything I like as an insult - but it only gathers racist connotations by the history attached to the words.

From:

applez.livejournal.com

But as with all some insults, it can become a badge of honour.

That is pretty much where Jeff Foxworthy has gone with his 'redneck' comedy ... which, quite offensively has decided to rebrand itself as 'blue collar' comedy. I imagine a helluvalot of Brooklyn plumbers and carpenters who would take exception with their identifier being appropriated that way. ;-)