Inland Revenue and electronic systems

[lathany]

I have just rung the Inland Revenue and asked about Child Tax Credit and Working Tax Credit. It looks like bateleur and I will not be eligible from April, because it is based on 2001/2 when I was still being paid (including my sudden transition to maternity leave). However the guy on their helpline reckoned it was worth making a claim in case we got something. Additionally it will adds us to their database and, hopefully, mean that we are automatically mailed for next year when it is based on our 2002/3 earnings which suddenly drop to half (or thereabouts).

We could, of course, fill in the form on-line. However I have been involved in enough government computing projects to have a deep rooted mistrust of anything involving the British government and the internet. After all, anyone who does not regard programming as a specialist skill is not going to have the best website technology. This is similar to the way in which I developed strong ideas about when to have children after working on infant mortality and disability statistics.

Government can be a morbid and cynical field to work in.

Comments

Not with a barge pole

[leathellin.livejournal.com]

I have a deep mistrust of anything involving the Inland Revenue and the internet having watched them write and test the systems. EDS really are very very bad at it.
I really wouldn't touch the online services unless you are willing to chase things up afterwards.
Not unless you've suddenly found out about the various validation mistakes and loopholes in detail first ;-)

Distrust of government?

[condign.livejournal.com]

It's why I'm a Republican. ;)

But seriously, I didn't trust government computer systems until I started working with the State of Texas Department of Motor Vehicles. This was fantastic, and frankly, enough to refute those who think G.W. Bush never put in place a good system.

Say what you will about stupid American Republicans, but the DMV computer system put in place under GW works. Any of you want to try ordering your passport online? :)

Re: Distrust of government?

[onebyone.livejournal.com]

So who specced the system, who contracted to build it, and how can we get them to work in the UK?

Re: Distrust of government?

[onebyone.livejournal.com]

It's why I'm a Republican.

Heh - the one thing Democrats and Republicans have in common - they don't trust Republicans in government ;-)

Re: Distrust of government?

[ieyasu.livejournal.com]

Curiously enough, EDS, as far as I can tell.

The trouble isn't really EDS, who are a fairly professional tech company. Working with the government over here is... dreadful. I've tried to bid for some government web projects--the project managers on the government side don't know what the hell they're doing. Web work works by... magic, or at least they seem to think so.

Re: Distrust of government?

[onebyone.livejournal.com]

The trouble isn't really EDS, who are a fairly professional tech company.

Hmm. I've never had any direct contact with them, so I can't make a personal judgement. But they and the government have a solid record of managing between them to screw up UK government contracts.

EDS appear to be happy with this relationship because they get paid anyway. I don't call that professionalism, irrespective of the competence of the actual engineers at EDS.

Government Project Managers

[lathany.livejournal.com]

The trouble with Government web project managers is usually that their position is allocated based on their project management experience rather than their web project management experience (or indeed any other type of computing). The British goverment's problem with computing, as I said before, is that it is not a skill that the civil service recognises (because, in turn, no government - Conservative or Labour - has ever allocated funds for recognising it).

Not recognising programming as a useful skill -> Not paying for it as a skill -> Not attracting good programmers.

There are exceptions to this rule. The civil service will hire people without formal experience; meaning that they will occasionally get really good people who are either very young or who need a bit of formalised work to include on their CVs. Also it sometimes retains people who like the civil service culture (a tolerance of "weird" and flexible working hours).

However, this does not change the fact that the overall level is low enough that I am personally regarded as having decent computing skills. I am often asked to help out other people with their computer problems (admittedly, usually low level and Windows-ey). Which is, frankly, scarey.

Re: Government Project Managers

[ieyasu.livejournal.com]

Not recognising programming as a useful skill -> Not paying for it as a skill -> Not attracting good programmers.

Although I doubt that Lathany actually means this, I suppose I should point out for reasons of professional pride that what makes a good IT programmer rarely makes a good IT project manager. ;)

Re: Government Project Managers

[lathany.livejournal.com]

That line was more about the general attitude than the specific problem with IT project managers. However, I do think that IT project managers should know something about IT - which the civil service regards as optional.

I would just like to add, for your benefit (and mine - I have a formal qualification in project management), I also think that skills in project management are completely necessary for an IT project manager.

The point I am making is that whilst you do not need to be a top programmer to manage a programming project, you do need to have some clue about programming. The famour quote from a would-be IT project manager from my recent years was :

"Which one is the escape key ?"

And, no, it isn't a joke. He really said it. I really winced.

Now do you see my point ?

Re: Distrust of government?

[leathellin.livejournal.com]

No really, in the Inland Revenue at least a considerable portion of the problem is EDS. The IR's odd attitude to computer and web based skills doesn't help either though.